FD：Since now there is this new convention for Intangible Heritage，would not that be a good idea to include this new convention in the protection of the sites？As we all know，Intangible Heritage is much harder to protect than Tangible Heritage，so if the protection of the intangible heritage would be included in the management plan，that is to say before the tourists arrive in great numbers，there is a chance that some intangible heritage would survive.Is there a way to do that？Are you thinking of trying to do it？
现在已经有以一份新的公约来保护无形遗产了，在对遗产地的保护中，让新的公约介入是不是个好主意呢？因为事实上，对于有形遗产而言，你能实实在在地看到它的破坏损毁，因而比无形遗产的保护更容易。所以对无形遗产的保护是否应该纳入管理规划，也就是说，在大量游客到来之前，有些无形遗产还有机会存活。是否有这样的途径？您是否考虑去尝试呢？
FB：You preoccupation is very justified because it is obvious that tourism can destroy the intangible heritage much faster than it destroys the tangible heritage.In most of the tourist sites the local culture has totally been destroyed.As a matter of fact，I even wonder if there is some place where it still exists.
您的看法是非常公正的，因为，很明显，旅游破坏无形遗产的速度比破坏有形遗产更快。在大多数旅游地，地方文化完全被破坏了。事实上，我在想是否还有那种保存着自己无形遗产的地方。
FD：It still exists in quite a few places in China including near the towers!!
在中国还有相当多这样的地方，包括在塔楼附近！
FB：Glad to hear this good news.But it is impossible to put the Convention together in terms of international law.Because International laws only apply to the countries which have sign the correspondent treaty，you cannot enforce that very law on the other countries and，for now，only about 50 states have sign the Intangible Heritage Convention.
很高兴能听到这个好消息。但是根据国际法，不能将两份公约放在一起。因为国际法仅适用于那些签署了相应条约的国家，你不能强迫对其他的国家实施这些法律，而且到目前为止，只有约50个国家签署了《无形文化遗产保护公约》。
FD： Yes but China has signed it.So would not that be a good idea to ask the Chinese government to register the towers sites in the two conventions，the WH one and the intangible one？
是的，中国已经签署了这份无形遗产公约。所以请求中国政府向两个公约(世界遗产的和无形遗产的)申报塔楼或许是个好主意？
FB：Yes that is very possible and it would be a good idea.But you have to realize that these two conventions，for the time being，do overlap but they do not interact.So you can have one single site registered for its tangible，natural or cultural or mixed heritage and it can also be registered for its intangible heritage.It is two types of protection but they do not interact.I know it sounds strange because it is all inside the same organization，UNESCO，but this is the basic principle of international law，every treaty is separate from the others and only applies to the countries which have sign that very treaty.
是的，非常有可能，而且这也许是个好主意。但是你必须意识到，这两个公约，现在的确有重叠，但是他们并没有互动。所以你可以让同一个遗产地就其有形的方面，申报列入自然或文化或混合遗产，也可以就其无形的部分申报无形文化遗产。这是保护的两种类型，但是他们没有互动。我知道这听起来很奇怪，因为它们都属于同一个组织--联合国教科文组织，但这是国际法的基本原则，每一个条约对其他的而言都是独立的，仅适用于签署了这一份条约的那些国家。
FD：Please describe your cooperation with the United Nations Foundations initiative for Sustainable Tourism.
请您说说与联合国基金会的合作，在可持续性旅游业方面的活动。
FB：UNF has promoted，jointly with Expedia，a Global Alliance for Sustainable Tourism.This is essentially partnership to raise awareness and mobilize support to site conservation and local development.I think that by focusing of the fact that tourism is a resource we have forgotten that we need to preserve the place AND to preserve the quality of the experience the tourists will have.
联合国基金会已与Expedia〔译者注：全球最大的在线旅游公司〕合作推动一个全球可持续性旅游业联盟。这种合作关系旨在激发公众意识，动员各方支持遗产地的保存和地方发展。我想，仅仅盯着旅游是一种资源这一事实会让我们忘记我们需要保存保护这个地方，并且保证旅游者旅游体验的质量。
FD：Yes and it is killing the hens that lay the golden eggs.
是的，这是杀鸡取卵。
FB：But before you kill it there are many years of deterioration，you go to places like Angkor，or Kathmandu，or the Galapagos，or any site were you have easy access by an airport per example，and you have the same impact，tourism is an important industry but it can be very destructive.
但是在你杀鸡之前，已有很多年的恶化，你到吴哥窟，或加德满都，或加拉帕戈斯群岛，或者其他任何你可以坐飞机轻松到达的遗产地都是这样，都有同样的影响，旅游业是一个重要的产业，但它实在是太具破坏性了。
FD：Yes，tourism is like fire，harness it and it will cook you food，let it run free and it will burn your house
是的，旅游就像是火，善用之则可以为你做饭，纵容之则会烧了你的房子。
FB：Maybe it is not very political to make a point like this because tourism is a very big industry，the richest of the world，very dynamic，and where one makes very quick profits，in a year or two one can make money and one does not need a big investment，and especially now with the internet，it has become totally global.
也许强调这个实在很不具政治策略，因为旅游是非常大的产业，是世界上最富有的产业，变化非常快，盈利也很快，不用太多的投资在一两年内就可以赚钱了，尤其是现在，旅游业彻底地全球化了。
